2016 F1

Will Cosworth-engine return to F1 with Red Bull?


Will Cosworth-engine return to F1 with Red Bull?

Will Cosworth-engine return to F1 with Red Bull?

Bernie Ecclestone recommended that F1 needs a Cosworth customer engine for teams to turn to following Ferrari confirm only offer engines to Toro Rosso, and Red Bull hints they could leave F1 at the end of 2015.

Last Friday German publication Auto Motor und Sport claim that the Ferrari are only willing to provide engines to Toro Rosso among fears that the former world champions would be ‘too strong’ even if armed with a year-old set of Ferrari V6 power.

Initially Ferrari had been in favour of supplying the four-time World Champions with 2015 engines but, after some debate, reportedly said no. Red Bull now face an even more uncertain future which could yet result in the team quitting Formula 1 – either that or making nice with Renault.

Four-time world champion, Red Bull Racing’s exit from the sport would, after all, be a disaster for the sport.

Other alternative option would be Honda, though the Japanese company has ruled out a supply deal as it attempts to resolve the problems, which have plagued its return to the grid with McLaren in 2015.

“There are more opportunities out there than people think,” Ecclestone told Sky Sports when asked about the possibility of Honda supplying Red Bull.

He added aAbout Ferrari situation: “Let’s see. A lot of the time people say no to something, they didn’t really mean no, they mean maybe. So let’s see.”

When the source asked if current manufacturers have too much power in F1, Ecclestone replied: “Up to a point, yes. If you had a team and Mercedes were supplying you with engines and they wanted a vote on something, you’d have to put your hand up and vote for whatever they wanted otherwise maybe you’re not going to get the engine you’re getting.

“We need another Cosworth — that’s basically what we want. Where you and I could start a team and know we could get an engine. Today we don’t know.”

The best option for Red Bull – being considered is the acquisition of Cosworth in Northampton, UK. This would existing an exciting challenge to Mercedes High Performance Power units, which is based only a few miles away; many of the current Mercedes engine builders came from Cosworth, including the boss Andy Cowell. They would fear losing key staff to the new outfit.

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26 Comments

26 Comments

  1. Yann Cherruault

    2015/11/19 at 1:49 pm

    Formula 1 DOES NEED Cosworth. They’re the best.

  2. Boyd McCollum

    2015/10/13 at 11:35 pm

    yeah, a 2015 spec engine that will be up to 1 second down to the 2016 Ferrari A-spec engine. Ferrari was playing games.

  3. Boyd McCollum

    2015/10/13 at 11:32 pm

    “the likes of real manufacturers with unlimited budgets and technical know how , can’t get right ”

    actually, Renault and Honda didn’t have unlimited budgets and technical know how. THAT was their problem – they didn’t realize the resources required. Mercedes was the only manufacturer who committed the proper resources to make the engines.

  4. bobmendon

    2015/10/13 at 6:19 pm

    Technically Red Bull is still under contract to Renault.

  5. bobmendon

    2015/10/13 at 6:17 pm

    Ferrari was all ready to sell them this year’s A spec engine and they turned it down and turned around and insulted Ferrari. They had a chance and blew it.

  6. bobmendon

    2015/10/13 at 5:12 pm

    Considering that if RB bought them today, the power unit would not be ready until 2017 and what happens in 2017? A change in the formula. Maybe not such a bad idea if you set your sights on the long haul. It would give you all next year to build and test the power unit. Put that together with off the shelf parts and it could prove very economical in the long run.

  7. Baziz

    2015/10/13 at 2:43 pm

    Maybe my comment was a bit too simplistic as I fully agree with your reply.

  8. Baziz

    2015/10/13 at 1:31 pm

    Yes that’s right, I meant as Formula 1 engine supplier.

  9. Bill

    2015/10/13 at 10:56 am

    Cosworth was more than willing they did not have any teams who wanted to pay the price. Unlike Mercedes and Ferrari who pull money from their car side Cosworth would have to completely fund a project. If they had a couple of top teams Cosworth could have done it. Scrap these dumb hybrids they are to expensive and have no place in racing.
    Cosworth is more than capable of building a winning engine. I seem to remember a certain Williams passing a certain Mercedes a few year back and the driver a certain Michael Schumacher pushing that William all the way out to within inches of the wall and was not able to keep that Williams from passing.
    Engine power in that Williams? Cosworth.
    William dumped Cosworth for Renualt because they could get a better deal price wise from Renault. That left Cosworth with only two teams HRT and Manor neither one with a budget to help Cosworth.
    Seems in Formula One everyone was to be a welfare queen and get their engines for next to nothing.
    That has not worked out real well as only a handful end up with those sweat heart deals. Williams is getting a deal due to their relationship with Toto Wolff but the rest are paying full price. Manor is likely getting a deal next year as Mercedes is going to use Manor to put their own drivers into the car.
    Time to remove manufacture owned teams they do nothing for Formula One.

  10. Andy Midd

    2015/10/13 at 10:35 am

    Cosworth are alive and well.

  11. Baziz

    2015/10/13 at 9:54 am

    Completely out of the question… Cosworth immediately folded as soon as these new engine rules became official. They’ll need an enormous budget and at least 2 to 3 years of development.

  12. Frikk

    2015/10/13 at 8:13 am

    Indeed They could buy Ilmor. Red Bull Ilmor why not..

  13. longshot

    2015/10/13 at 4:13 am

    Hmm, from what I’ve read, only Ferrari offered a 2015 spec power unit, and only to Toro Rosso, and to do that there’d need to be a rule change which every team would have to vote in support of. I don’t recall seeing that Merc have offered anything at all, indeed they’ve previously said they weren’t interested in providing old power units as its not cost effective. If the bridges cannot be mended with Renault, then RBR have no engine and will not be on the grid next year.

  14. longshot

    2015/10/13 at 4:11 am

    RBR’s system was never very reliable either, at least not in Webber’s car 😉

    And you’re right about the tight packaging – that’s the path followed by Ferrari last year and McHonda this year, and both have run into significant difficulties as a result. All of which goes to show how Cosworth etc is simply not an option these days.

    These power units need the resources of a large car manufacturer, and even they aren’t guaranteed of getting it right. Which would be fine if the struggling PU providers were given special dispensation/tokens to develop during the season and catch up, instead of being forced to run defective designs all season long.

  15. JustCoz

    2015/10/13 at 4:09 am

    The situation can be resolved by RBR sucking it up and either continuing with Renault or accepting the engines they’ve been offered. IIRC both Merc and Ferrari have offered to supply them with 2015 PUs. From there they can explore their options for 2017. If they still can’t secure a competitive package for 2017, then they might have something to complain about, but right now they’re coming off like the lady in the grocery store who wants something they just don’t have, and she isn’t leaving until she gets it!

  16. JustCoz

    2015/10/13 at 4:02 am

    It probably didn’t have either, my point was that there’s a lot more to developing one of these engines than just coming up with an efficient piston and combustion chamber design. One of the Renault’s weaknesses has been ERS, probably both because Renault never developed a KERS system (RBR and Williams, made their own, with Toro Rosso and Lotus as RBR customers, where Ferrari and Merc both had factory teams), and the system RBR did make focused more on tight packaging and light weight over overall power. Honda is now also finding out how important ERS really is, and how far behind the game they are.

  17. longshot

    2015/10/13 at 3:37 am

    Good question, I have no idea…

  18. longshot

    2015/10/13 at 3:36 am

    A lot of people just seem interested in casting blame rather than wondering how the situation can be resolved, but that aside … they did speak to Mercedes earlier, though I’m not sure how early. Wolff is on record as saying that it’d be good to associate Merc with such a “hip brand”, and Lauda of course was rumbling on about supplying the whole grid if need be, but Wolff did say that Red Bull needed to terminate its agreement with Renault FIRST. And of course when they did so, suddenly Wolff was against the whole deal. Ferrari seems to have been an afterthought after the Merc deal fell through.

  19. JustCoz

    2015/10/13 at 3:32 am

    And did that single cylinder model have either ERS system, or was it just the engine?

  20. JustCoz

    2015/10/13 at 3:31 am

    This problem is their own fault. If they were serious about switching, they should have been in negotiations with either Merc or Ferrari back in April or May, when they might have had time to step up production to supply an extra team. The contract should have been signed, at least in principle, before they terminated the Renault contract.

  21. GDV

    2015/10/13 at 2:05 am

    I’m in favor of that plan as long as the Cosworth is a n.a. V10 of 3 liters. Then lets see if the damn hybrids are superior.

  22. longshot

    2015/10/13 at 1:43 am

    Its one thing to design a concept & build a single-cylinder prototype to run on a dyno. Another altogether to produce the full power units along with all their controlling software, and manufacture them in enough quantity & quality to drive a formula one team.

  23. longshot

    2015/10/13 at 12:52 am

    And in the meantime, while waiting 2/3 years for those Cosworth engines to be developed, Toro Rosso limps at the back of the field with old spec Ferrari lumps and the Red Bulls are propelled by Fred Flintstone power units. They have need of an engine now and nobody will sell them one – even if buying Cosworth was a feasible longer term plan, it doesn’t do anything to solve their immediate problem.

  24. walle200

    2015/10/13 at 12:37 am

    I hope they would take a controlling interest in Cosworth. With 4 cars under the Red Bull umbrella to power it could turn into a complete works effort between the two teams. Yeah it would take tremendous resources to make it successful but Red Bull would have complete control over their future, even if it takes 3 years. They’re contracted in to F1 until 2020 after all!

  25. Jamie Huntoon

    2015/10/12 at 11:28 pm

    Mario Illien could do it. They have a design that Red Bull paid for, Renault look at and they dismissed it.

  26. stvsxm

    2015/10/12 at 10:33 pm

    oh sure. lets buy an engine company that hasn’t built a motor for a competitive series in a decade to design and manufacture a driveline that the likes of real manufacturers with unlimited budgets and technical know how , can’t get right ( except one ) after 5 years of development and two years of running… yup… that REALLY sounds like a smart play for rb. how does garbage like this even get published ?

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